Lina al-Hathloul: 'Most Saudis know MBS not a reformer'

CNN

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    Lina al-Hathloul, sister of Saudi women's rights activist, Loujain al-Hathloul, talks to Christiane Amanpour about her sister's release from prison and says in Saudi Arabia, "activism is considered terrorism"
    #CNN #News

    Pubblicato il 10 giorni fa

    Commenti

    1. EGGZ I

      hahaha, They are really good at making up stories, they look so pathetic

    2. Ahmad S

      This not correct. It seems that someone is paid or have an agenda to bring social issues as political scandal in international media. What do think about someone who is paid to speak against his country and then get caught? Off course captured.

    3. The Life & Dimension

      Every president comes and try to bully or pressurise different countries around the world by using different prays or bait.in other side of dual policy coin it says ethnic laws, traditions shall be preserved.i did not what internal deals they do by this?

    4. Deborah Rasmussen

      Biden needs to flex the power of SANCTIONS against MBS and other Saudi’s and also American companies that do business with them!

    5. ABC

      Mrs Oman Poor, you should know and better inform your viewers that saudi arrested ljain just as us arrested Harvard professor for receiving money from China.

    6. Ludwig Bolzmann

      Saudi Arabia is the most evil country on earth. Israel and the US are harmless in comparison.

    7. Mitchell Webb

      She was only released because of the change in administration in the US.

    8. Kuwaitiobserver

      Fake news

    9. Rpain Astronet

      CNN WON'T TALK ABOUT RAPE CULTURE IN USA

    10. Rpain Astronet

      MALE GUARDIAN IS NEEDED CUS OF RAPE CULTURE IN WEST......WE HEARD ABOUT RAPE CULTURE EXISTANCE IN WEST FROM LEFTIST PEOPLE SO WE SEND MAN WITH WOMEN AS A BODYGUARD TO GIVE THEM PROTECTION

    11. Insight Stories

      Murderer crown prince, leave chair.......

    12. seyfu dada

      trump were protected many crimimals....

    13. seyfu dada

      she relesed after 1001 day in prison is it arabian night history..??

    14. Moe Moe

      Wonder if she is willing to go back to Saudi Arabia and say this

    15. William Diaz

      MBS is just another Osama Bin Laden with a royal title.

    16. Amal Abdelnour

      Support for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

    17. Penda Savage

      who's dangerous , iran or The Crown

    18. Norziah Zakaria

      These people are Saudi citizens There are millions of people go to Saudi Arabia annually Yet not all consider as terrorists They will use every main issues to undermine their own ctry What a shame Her mentality is dominated by some ......of the west This is expanding thr out the world

    19. BA Q

      🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦✌🏽✌🏽✌🏽✌🏽✌🏽✌🏽🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦✌🏽✌🏽✌🏽✌🏽✌🏽✌🏽✌🏽🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦✌🏽✌🏽✌🏽✌🏽🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦✌🏽✌🏽✌🏽✌🏽✌🏽

    20. BA Q

      CNN🐕🐕🐕🐕👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾

    21. Felix Xavier

      A reminder of the Xinjiang province of P. R. China…

    22. Slack Hackman

      I have to take a Trump and wipe my Limbaugh... I'll be right back.

    23. Hanif Alathar

      "And the more truth is tested and tried, the more it intensifies and strengthens"

    24. carmen1hun n

      🙏

    25. at494949

      The reports issued by them do not enrich or satiate Because all their reports so far Iran, which is the primary sponsor of terrorism, has not been condemned In the world And do not forget that they destroyed two countries Iraq and Afghanistan The reason is a false report In the end, whoever issues reports is his goal Destruction of peoples and not Uncover false facts

    26. ravi verma

      She is brave lady.

    27. Mel D

      These human rights abuses against women need to be addressed by our country by boycotting everything we can. Saudi Arabia isn't a poor country. It doesn't need anything from us that it cant get somewhere else. America needs to walk the walk if we talk the talk to other countries.

    28. Hassan Badrek

      Most Saudi don’t want reforming

    29. Gina ChildFree

      That sister needs to stop talking to the media and sit down somewhere. If Lujane wants to be a martyr and give up her freedom, then do it. If she wants freedom she needs to sit down and leave MBS alone

    30. Tiger Z

      This step by releasing Hathlool will help the American people raise their economy It will help the American people get back to their jobs It will also reduce corona cases by 66% Also, drug prices for the American people will decrease Biden is a wise president who loves his American people

    31. Marshideeze Hart

      Does anyone know what happened to Fahad Albutairi?

    32. Tyle Smog

      ithomes.info/net/28qNzapsbqt4rII/video

    33. Z A

      They released your sister, how about cooling the criticism for a minute?

    34. Nimrah Un Nisa

      Hathloul Al Loujain's 11 colleagues were also jailed. They still haven't been released.

    35. Basam Ahmad

      This woman is lier and the reporter is Iranian savak. Check her background!

      1. RAM FINACH

        MBS is a criminal and needs to be in jail

    36. Sultan Alghamdi

      As a saudi living in saudi arabia, I can confirm that all of the allegations that have been made by this woman are simply not true. We support our leadership and women in my country are living perfectly fine. In saudi, there is very low crime, free medical care, free education, scholarships, huge foreign investments, and more! All of this count as human rights... Long Live Saudi!

      1. Nimrah Un Nisa

        As a patriotic person, you are bias. You only care about your country's image not women suffering in prisons for being activists. Shame on you. Truth can never be hidden.

      2. Sultan Alghamdi

        @RAM FINACH I guess you have your mind made up by the media and you are incapable of thinking freely. You need to stop watching CNN videos and get a ticket and visit Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries and see by yourself how cool life is here. Otherwise, you are being delusional

      3. RAM FINACH

        Thank you Sultan but we don’t believe you because you cannot say otherwise or you will be jailed and tortured. Bin Salman is a criminal and needs to be convicted

    37. Duane Moran

      Where is Jamal Kashoggis head and torso. People can be kept alive without arms and legs?

    38. Rayed Jualidan

      All Saudis love MBS. Why don't you come here and ask actul people instead of doing these fake interviews.

      1. RAM FINACH

        Stop being scared. MBS is a criminal and a milking cow

    39. Rayed Jualidan

      Of course they can claim what ever they want without evidence and CNN the propaganda machine will be used as a cudgel to attack whatever countrys against their agenda. China is committed an actual genocide and no reports on it.

      1. RAM FINACH

        MBS is a criminal and a milking cow

    40. ManOnA Mission

      Saudi has 2 type of laws sharia law for the people & no law for the "Royals".

    41. Chris St Clair

      Lina' thank you for your bravery please be very careful bless your sister hope she's recovering well.

      1. Ryan lex

        Even Saudi Arabia doesn't want liberal Democracy 😂😂😂😂

    42. Mt Al

      The West is back at it again, with using the media as a weapon to spread lies. Biden is really trying it.

      1. RAM FINACH

        Your life is a lie

    43. lily boone

      Poor girl, that is so sad

      1. Ryan lex

        Even Saudi Arabia doesn't want liberal Democracy 😂😂😂😂

    44. V8 Engine

      Fake news

    45. DXR

      Monarchs are people who are non-workers in society the owners of the economic surplus produced by society. This social condtion is a contradiction in terms; how do non-workers become owners and non-owners become workers?

    46. taxiuniversum

      The mere fact that there is a concept of „female disobedience“ is just SICKENING to no end! Who do these men think they are? 🤮

    47. Fahad

      I love Lojian what happened to here was horrible and stupid, but what Lina said here about women’s rights after MBS taking control it’s completely not true , women in Saudi Arabia granted without any noticeable demands or movements above what any one expected it’s hugest improvement from thousands years

      1. RAM FINACH

        Stop being scared, this is not enough. MBS is a criminal and needs to be convicted

    48. naseem hany

      Examples of MBS reforms: ordering the execution of hundreds of innocent people secretly without trials some of the victims were children's 1- at least 158 executions in 2015 2- at least 154 executions in 2016 3- at least 146 executions in 2017 4- at least 149 executions in 2018 5- at least 184 executed in 2019

    49. Adnan Mohmmed

      الباكستنيه مشكله

      1. M iy

        هي سعوديه ومن اقحاح نجد يمكن انت بلانسب وانت الباكستاني بس نسب الهذلول من من اصل اصل القصيم

      2. M iy

        انت باكستاني؟

    50. M iy

      Loujain Al-Hathloul is his hero and a true symbol

      1. Ryan lex

        Even Saudi Arabia doesn't want liberal Democracy 😂😂😂😂

    51. MrPathorock

      This womam is an actress

    52. hussin alqahtani

      Those Leaders in middles east & North africa who brings them they are Europeans in 1917 after European destroy ottman Empires - European made This qoverments and the Corruptions every Where around the world = ( Africa -- Middle east -- south asia -- Middle asia ) .

    53. ابو محمد

      Biden works for human rights 😂😂 America does not know the meaning of human rights The Americans are pressuring Prince Muhammad bin Salman not for the sake of Yemen, Khashoggi, or Loujain al-Hathloul, but rather for fear of him because he wants to place Saudi Arabia in the ranks of developed countries. Greetings to the land of the Arabian Peninsula Land of the Prophets 🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦🇸🇦

      1. RAM FINACH

        😂😂😂 MBS the milking cow

    54. Faisal

      MBS😍😍 Loujain Hathloul was supported by the Democratic Party during the Obama era against Saudi Arabia, After its release the dog Biden left everything and spoke about Loujain Hathloul, Saudi Arabia set conditions for Loujain Hathloul. If she talks about the state with inappropriate words, she will return to prison again.

      1. Faisal

        @RAM FINACH In dreams

      2. RAM FINACH

        MBS to jail soon

    55. Vera511

      Repugnant !!

    56. Tyle Smog

      that all happened to her because she said driveing isnt in the Quran......

    57. Miss Ema

      Saudi Arabia promised it will grant Lojain a fair trial and her release is proof of that. The accusations are baseless, and they are formed to distort the image of Saudi laws and .

    58. Miss Ema

      It is important to stress the fact she wasn’t imprisoned because of her advocacy women’s rights. The accusations relate to Saudi Arabia’s national security

    59. Miss Ema

      If there is not an official Saudi source that commented on her release and the conditions state not to share anything, then how does her sister have all this information?

    60. Melody Charles

      I'd suggest that this family lie low for a little while. Loujain is still not really free.

    61. UWSGRRL

      What a heartbreaking story. The Saudi government is barbaric towards women. To torture an activist is cruel. I am so grateful I was born in the USA & have freedom of speech.

      1. ادم محمد

        @UWSGRRL Conservative is an understatement, radical or fundamentalist would be better terms so that’s why I do believe the guest is being very disingenuous when she’s trying to show that Saudis have a Norwegian mentality but poor us we are ruled by a draconian theocratic system. And you know the ironic part is that the same people that were drinking, do have a backward mentality and they do believe they are sinners and after a while they would joint Islamist terrorist groups, what my country needs right now is another interpretation of Islam other than Wahhabism and whether the west like him or not the only Saudi royal who is trying to do that is MBS.

      2. UWSGRRL

        Yes I am aware of the Saudi tribes are very conservative. However, Saudi Arabia needs to join the 21st century. Many in the royal family are hypocrites. I lived in London in 1979, & in all the nightclubs, the Saudi men & women had bottles of scotch at their table. In the casino's gambling tables were mostly Saudi women & men.

      3. ادم محمد

        Actually the situation was much worse before MBS; and we never saw western nations pressure Saudi Arabia so as a Saudi I don't believe that countries are now pressuring us because they suddenly decided to care about women it's politics plain and simple and by the way the Saudi population is actually much more conservative much more than the government so that's why I disagree when the guest spoke as if the Saudi people are against the new laws most are actually against the new reform laws it's quite surprising I know but it's the truth.

    62. Erick Borling

      Jamal Kashoggi.

    63. Y҉o҉u҉s҉e҉f҉ a͠l͠ o͠t͠a͠i͠b͠i͠

      يازينكم في استغلال البقر ههه بشرونا عن تكساس وصلت الكهرباء والمويه ولا باقي 🤔

      1. Mt Al

        《و يمكرون و يمكر الله》 خلها على الله، نحن ناس ما نخاف غير ربنا، و خله الكلاب تنبح. الله يحفظكم 🇦🇪🇸🇦💕

    64. MrLoobu

      Saudi Arabia takes the third place bronze medal for shittiest country to live in, just behind NK and Russia to my mind.

      1. Mt Al

        Well we love that shitty country. No one cares what you think though, you can just spare us the visit. All the arabs in the gulf and in Egypt, Sudan, Iraq and Jorden love Saudi dearly. That's because we actually know how they rule and how their people are.

      2. ادم محمد

        Emphasis on your mind

    65. Fact Check

      MBS get rid off religious policemen, get rid off school texts that incite hate against Christian and Jew. Left restriction on what woman must wear. Left ban on woman to drive. Women don't need any approval from guardian for education, work and travel. And much more than that How he is not reformer? The sad thing CNN presents anything without any proof.

      1. RAM FINACH

        He is a criminal. He needs to be in jail. Fact check yourself

    66. Fact Check

      "Most of Saudis don't think MBS is reformer"? Based on what statistic or survey? Don't speak on behalf of us. It's a shame of CNN to bring a liar like you. Women doesn't need any approval from a guardian. Not for a job or education or travel. Also allow them to drive.

      1. Chris Parker

        @Fact Check Well lookee here. It turns out that the private jets used to fly Kashoggi's murderers into the country were owned by a company that MBS ordered be taken in to government ownership. But sure, MBS still had nothing to do with this. 🙄 ithomes.info/net/3rmelr2ab36gqKA/video

      2. Fact Check

        @Chris Parker Again you have no solid proof that MBS ordered. I could say you're American and you could reply you're not. Still the breaking point comes with proof The media politicizing Jamal for their agenda to attack Trump. Not because they care about him. How many names were killed by Iran? The nuked of Lebanon Port that killed 200 people, the massacred that happened in Syria and drive people out of home. 800 Iraqis were killed by Iran Malitias last week. Many journalists were killed by Iran(plus all the crimes inside the country). All these victims have names and some killed with family yet we don't see equal treatment. So does one crime equal to hundred thousands? You're saying stealing is equal to murder.

      3. Fact Check

        @Chris Parker You forget to respond to the main point "Second, you only know this Jamal what the media feeds you. He was a supporter of Alqadea and Alnusra. He even talked that Saudi should finance the Islamists(Terrorists)."

      4. Chris Parker

        @Mt Al "they didn't justify a muder by saying there were others". Yes they did, it was classic 'whataboutism'. "other goverments commited genocides till this very day on Arab and Muslim countries ". And you've just done exactly the same thing. "Not jump to conclusions without sold proof because you just feel a person order it.". You have no evidence that I did that so you are, in fact, jumping to a conclusion without solid proof. "America can't talk about human rights when it did all this crap in the middle-east.". I agree. Please show me where I have said otherwise. "On top of messing up our countries, you got a nerve accusing our goverments.". How have I done anything to mess up anyone's country? Please provide evidence and citations. "The media .....". I am well aware of what the media does and doesn't do just as I am aware of what governments, leaders and politicians do. It is a unanimous opinion outside countries not tied to Saudi that Kashoggi could not have been killed without the say so of MBS. The people who actually did the killing were sacrified to appease political outrage and will never serve their 20 year sentences. Instead they will be quietly released and compensated for keeping their mouths shut. Wasta rules.

      5. Chris Parker

        @Mt Al "They talk about human rights but the last person that can do that is the US, after spreading war like that in the middle-east". I agree, no argument here. Where have I said otherwise? "americas out take on someone can make the whole world attack a country, it's your responsibility to do better" I'm not American, so where do you want to go with this now?

    67. Fact Check

      You're liar just like your sis. Both of you are the most hated in Saudi Arabia..

      1. Nimrah Un Nisa

        But loved in the entire world

    68. Beji Mathew

      Most Saudis and most people around world knows about it but unfortunately our do call mainstream media do know about it now cnn is also call him reformist sad

    69. Jack O'lantern

      MBS isn't the greatest reformer but just like his counterpart in Iran Rouhani...he's kind of best one you can get currently OR do you want to lose your current rights and go back to ultra-conservative isolationist policies?

      1. Jack O'lantern

        @Chris Parker okay I hope you have/had a safe flight. (sorry for the late reply)

      2. Chris Parker

        @Jack O'lantern I’d like e to properly read and digest your comment but you’ve caught me on the hop, about to sleep for an early flight. I’ll try to remember to revisit this when I’ve got the luxury of time to respond properly. If I don’t it’s not because I disbelieve you, quite the contrary.

      3. Jack O'lantern

        @Chris Parker if there was a third way between the crazy antics of a radical progressive and the Ultra-Conservatives then I'll gladly take it but I'm afraid that third way is getting riskier with every year (due to Geopolitical reasons). Note: Saudi Arabia used to be weak when it came to Geopolitics (so it relied on US and UK for Political, Economical and Military power) Saudi Arabia (which was Mainly Conservative) in 2010 found itself in a very hard place. The U.S was slowly losing influence in the middle east. While both Iran and Turkey started to become more and more influential in the region not to mention they also had strong economies, militaries and technological advancements that of which gave them alot of political power and a position in the Geopolitical map of the middle east ....meanwhile Saudi Military was (and still is) a paper tiger at best, the economy was hardly diverse (it was mostly oil-based), there were hardly any technological advances *made* (yes *made* not *bought*) by Saudi... if it wasn't for the need of oil and U.S/UK backing Saudi Arabia then i dare say that Saudi Arabia wouldn't even be on the Geopolitical map today. (Or back in 90s) So it needed to act *fast* (they can't select a normal progressive because he will act slow and they can't select a radical conservative because he will drive the country to the ground) and choose either a radical progressive (to make up for the lost years) and achieve self-reliance before it's too late OR a conservative who will undoubtedly do what past Saudi leaders always did and rely on US/UK support OR a moderate (third way) who *as I said earlier* would come with alot of risks because there's hardly any time for him to work with.

      4. Chris Parker

        @Jack O'lantern You profferred a choice between MBS and ultra-conservatism, I asked why they should be the only options.

      5. Jack O'lantern

        @Chris Parker what do you mean?

    70. Asher Jones

      All Political Prisoners All Over The World Need To Be Freed!!!

    71. محمد الحارثي

      Lina and her sister are liars and pawns of the West. Saudis love MBS.

    72. g k

      So the US changes leader, and voila, the "great" SA becomes the big evil. US politics is so dirty.

      1. taxiuniversum

        Interesting spin you‘re trying to give this. Last time I checked the ACTUAL oddity was when a certain orange-tainted, lifelong criminal became President - and suddenly, murdering and dismembering journalists and committing genocides was no issue any more whatsoever!

    73. You mad bruh?

      Of course cnn speaks for most Saudis. AMAZING!

    74. Paula Gandolfo

      I love #JimmyCarter. He once said that he'd #lostHisReligion over the (Mal) Treatment of #Women .

      1. Coming soon

        Worst president after obama..

    75. Mousa Halaby

      Good thing to cover human rights situation in Saudi Arabia. I only hope that CNN is enthusiastic as well while covering the same issue in Iran

    76. Jarod 1999

      He’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing

    77. Stanley Wong

      Gitmo - detainees being kept in open cages, prolonged solitary confinement, physical and mental torture. Where are your videos on that, CNN ?

      1. damasviews

        The only reason you know about that is because of journalism like CNN. Gitmo isnt like that today but the majority in the country want it closed. Stop engaging in deflection.

    78. Kelly Olynyk

      As Saudi we don’t care what you all think lol you all so dumb by believe this lying women she said her Sister has been tortured lol go watch her sister face she looked she hove come form a vacation not from jail

    79. Noah JA

      This is one of the tactics if not the most frequent tactic that is being used by the Human Rights Watch to accuse governments of sexually abusing their prisoners. Saudi Arabia is not Venezuela or Bolivia. The United States murdered Jeffrey Epstein in prison and the media along with the Human Rights Watch didn’t open their mouths. Take your “human rights” somewhere else. We know your dirty game and now we have mastered it.

    80. realmoses1

      Not only did I vote for Trump, I donated over 5k to his campaign, I if I had to do it over again, I would donate 10k+. I invite liberals to try and cancel me, bring it on arses, I dare you!!!!!! I am immune to cancellation so do your best idiots.

    81. abu faisal

      He is not a reformer at all, sadly he is trying to implant and host a new extremely aggressive slavery regime.

    82. Dr. Kay

      Trump is 100 times worse than MBS if we didn´t have laws in the US.

    83. Michael McConnell

      When I was there, the mutawi (religious police) were everywhere. Since all the employed expats (at the time) were men, their family were treated like dogs. Not from the standpoint of being dismissive or abusive, but from the responsibility the man had for his family. So if anyone had a run-in with police, no matter how trivial, the husband would be called to 'take care of the problem'.

      1. ادم محمد

        @Chris Parker This is no longer the case but I don’t see western media commending us on that, they would rather criticize us because we are not like Norway as if progress can happen in a day; I wish that my country is like Norway when it comes to human rights but I’m a pragmatist Sir I need to compare the previous monarchs to MBS and if I do that I will see that there was plenty of progress that was achieved.

      2. Chris Parker

        It is indeed one fucked-up society.

    84. Igor Bogza

      Im coming to Suadi Arabia

    85. Only Islam is True & Justice Religion.

      What she was doing was not Islam and what saudi government is doing with her in prison is against humanity.

    86. تاةا برنه

      If you bring qazem bin fakeah and oppesitions and think they will make us afraid thus thats dream bin hypocrates Aramix dream

    87. تاةا برنه

      Let any men in oppesitions of arabs or qazem bin faqeah talk to us and see how they will be killed

    88. تاةا برنه

      We show whats the opisition are they crazy and stupid and hypocrates and magicions and agents or not

    89. تاةا برنه

      Athwan alahmari show you how the opisition and qazem bin fakeah and abdulbary crazy and stupid and adwan sick, we told you one word they are adwan sick then they are, their men they never talk to us or follow us otherwise they will be killed for sure

    90. DrMayor

      she has no right to speak for the whole country. She is bitter that she cant milk her sister case anymore. And westren media sure loves to focus on the extemist that push their agenda. Its either their opinion or no opinion. Activisim, dissident or whatever they are called, you have to becarfull , the last time the media called anti saudi person a Dissdent and an activist was Osama Bin laden. And look how that turnd out dispit the constant warning.

    91. Flying fig

      "men guardian" woww the ego knows no bounds.

      1. Insight Stories

        Murderer crown prince, leave chair.......

      2. Ryan lex

        Even Saudi Arabia doesn't want liberal Democracy 😂😂😂😂

      3. Jan

        Like in this Netflix movie I care a lot

    92. Julia g

      God please protect my uncle Jamal Ali musa, he is in prison right now in Saudi Jada. Please pray for him

      1. Nimrah Un Nisa

        Tell me more.

    93. Martin Dijkmans

      Lina and Loujain are beautiful educated women. Visibly dangerous for a suppresive regime. I hope they succeed in their resistance. Stay strong but stay alive please.

    94. Afc85

      Your sister wasn’t the only women’s rights activist in KSA, there were thousands openly calling for the lift of the ban years ago and haven’t been jailed. The difference here is that most Saudis know you and your sister are puppets for the Left in the West who have committed treason by using women’s rights as an excuse to work with foreign agents and enemies of the state and you continue to do so therefore she got what she deserved and your day will come.

    95. Notafratdude

      Jesus loves and cares about you so much so repent so That we all make it to heaven. Like so more people can see this.

    96. Oosee

      Religious police dismantled, guardianship law dismantled, women are allowed everywhere even the military, but yeah he is "nOt a rEfoRmEr"

      1. TL

        Appeasement, so they don't (inevitably) lose control.

    97. Edward Greysand

      Why is their so many white people on CNN where is the Diversification in Anchors?.... hmmm por que???

    98. تاةا برنه

      Bring the all the lebro hypocrates and the opesessions and gazem alfakeah , crazy short wheelchair hypocrate pshyzo and talk too! Never leave these stupids small minds magicions

    99. Chris Young

      For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    100. تاةا برنه

      Qazem wheelchair alfaqeah and opossision of saudi arabia all hypocrates and crazy and stupid and small minds